with regard to bear, stearns, you used the word fined. i think it would be not just unfair but bad public policy to fine them for having acqueases to serious pressure from the federal financial people to take over bear, stearns. leave aside equity, there may be another request by other federal financial officials to a bank to step in that way and they'd be much less likely to be cooperative. to the extent that you can say there are people to be made whole because of things bear, stearns did, that's different but as far as penalizing them because of what bear, stearns did before they were pressured into accepting it, i think that's a mistake. >> mr. mayor, what do you think of that? the next time the treasury secretary calls a bank during a time of crisis, do they hang up on him? >> i'm not -- i don't know what they would do. i can't speak to that. i do think, i want to emphasize what barney just said on this one part -- which i think is an important point -- we are at a place that j.p. morgan had to get bear, stearns because you would hav